Comments on: Glassfish is doomed in the ‘department’ http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/2010/02/04/glassfish-is-doomed-in-the-department/ programming idiom and methodology Tue, 13 Jul 2010 23:23:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: NetBeans Bits : JavaFX NetBeans Modules, High RCP Adoption … | JavaFX WebDev Insider http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/2010/02/04/glassfish-is-doomed-in-the-department/comment-page-1/#comment-630 NetBeans Bits : JavaFX NetBeans Modules, High RCP Adoption … | JavaFX WebDev Insider Wed, 31 Mar 2010 22:24:50 +0000 http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/?p=508#comment-630 [...] let x=x › Glassfish is doomed in the 'department' [...] [...] let x=x › Glassfish is doomed in the 'department' [...]

]]> By: Alexis MP http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/2010/02/04/glassfish-is-doomed-in-the-department/comment-page-1/#comment-501 Alexis MP Fri, 05 Feb 2010 06:59:16 +0000 http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/?p=508#comment-501 Hi Scot, nice stylish write up. Oracle's Mike Lehman has these comments : http://blog.eisele.net/2010/02/glassfish-vs-weblogic-10-visions-for.html?showComment=1265316113593#c573858513072567459 Although I don't expect them to fully take you out of your cynicism though :) Hi Scot, nice stylish write up.

Oracle’s Mike Lehman has these comments : http://blog.eisele.net/2010/02/glassfish-vs-weblogic-10-visions-for.html?showComment=1265316113593#c573858513072567459

Although I don’t expect them to fully take you out of your cynicism though :)

]]> By: eduardo pelegri http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/2010/02/04/glassfish-is-doomed-in-the-department/comment-page-1/#comment-500 eduardo pelegri Fri, 05 Feb 2010 01:09:10 +0000 http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/?p=508#comment-500 No need to excuse yourself at all! You are correct and, in addition to the roadmap, Oracle needs to explain how GF will be bought (and sold). And, ultimately, the execution of all of these is what matters, of course. No need to excuse yourself at all! You are correct and, in addition to the roadmap, Oracle needs to explain how GF will be bought (and sold). And, ultimately, the execution of all of these is what matters, of course.

]]> By: Scot Mcphee http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/2010/02/04/glassfish-is-doomed-in-the-department/comment-page-1/#comment-499 Scot Mcphee Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:10:04 +0000 http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/?p=508#comment-499 Eduardo, You'll have to excuse my cynicism, I guess. I've been close to Oracle Fusion Middleware implementations the past couple of years. From my experience with the local sales teams, and the way they tend to sell the 'red stack' vision to their customers, I guess I don't feel confident that whatever the group PM or GM might say in a 'roadmap' statement will translate into the appropriate action out in the field. Of course my full judgement should be reserved until I can evaluate their execution of said roadmap. Based on past experience, I just don't hold confidence. They can be like a swarm of Borg boarding your department performing a site audit and wielding complex licensing agreements counting up every single CPU cycle and adding a dollar for each one. Eduardo,

You’ll have to excuse my cynicism, I guess. I’ve been close to Oracle Fusion Middleware implementations the past couple of years. From my experience with the local sales teams, and the way they tend to sell the ‘red stack’ vision to their customers, I guess I don’t feel confident that whatever the group PM or GM might say in a ‘roadmap’ statement will translate into the appropriate action out in the field.

Of course my full judgement should be reserved until I can evaluate their execution of said roadmap. Based on past experience, I just don’t hold confidence. They can be like a swarm of Borg boarding your department performing a site audit and wielding complex licensing agreements counting up every single CPU cycle and adding a dollar for each one.

]]> By: eduardo pelegri http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/2010/02/04/glassfish-is-doomed-in-the-department/comment-page-1/#comment-498 eduardo pelegri Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:31:59 +0000 http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/?p=508#comment-498 Hi Scott. I sympathize with your perspective. There are some small things I could say, but the two main thoughts I can contribute are: If Oracle does not really support GlassFish, many customers will just go to JBoss, and I believe this is clear to the Oracle folks; and, "The proof of the pudding is in the roadmap" - see [1]. I hope the near future will provide concrete evidence of how Oracle will treat GlassFish. [1] http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=59317#332069 Hi Scott.

I sympathize with your perspective. There are some small things I could say, but the two main thoughts I can contribute are: If Oracle does not really support GlassFish, many customers will just go to JBoss, and I believe this is clear to the Oracle folks; and, “The proof of the pudding is in the roadmap” – see [1].

I hope the near future will provide concrete evidence of how Oracle will treat GlassFish.

[1] http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=59317#332069

]]> By: David Sachdev http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/2010/02/04/glassfish-is-doomed-in-the-department/comment-page-1/#comment-496 David Sachdev Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:25:07 +0000 http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/?p=508#comment-496 Finally - someone who sees it like I do. After watching the various Oracle webinars, and then going back and seeing the more detailed session they did on Java tools - I couldn't help but to come up with my own "What they meant to say" phrases. I essentially think that NetBeans and Glassfish are on their way out as we know them, but they want t make sure to maintain enough control over them to avoid the forks. Instead they want to groom those customers for the borg - and will do that slowly over time so they don't realize what is happening to them. http://www.translucent-development.com David Finally – someone who sees it like I do. After watching the various Oracle webinars, and then going back and seeing the more detailed session they did on Java tools – I couldn’t help but to come up with my own “What they meant to say” phrases.

I essentially think that NetBeans and Glassfish are on their way out as we know them, but they want t make sure to maintain enough control over them to avoid the forks. Instead they want to groom those customers for the borg – and will do that slowly over time so they don’t realize what is happening to them.

http://www.translucent-development.com

David

]]> By: Holger Schneider http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/2010/02/04/glassfish-is-doomed-in-the-department/comment-page-1/#comment-494 Holger Schneider Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:37:33 +0000 http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/?p=508#comment-494 At my company we used Weblogic for many years. Due to high costs we moved to JBoss. Then we discovered we do not need EJBs and also we discovered Spring. So we moved to Tomcat and use Spring for everything. To say Spring is big and heavy with lots of moving parts is not correct. Spring is the most lightweight framework we found for Java development and also Tomcat. Also we use only the Spring jars we need for our applications to make it even smaller. The only missing component in Tomcat is JMS so we plugin Active MQ. Our development times and deployment times are now much smaller. We looked at Glassfish but we do not need EJB and J2EE and nobody use Glassfish. At my company we used Weblogic for many years. Due to high costs we moved to JBoss. Then we discovered we do not need EJBs and also we discovered Spring. So we moved to Tomcat and use Spring for everything. To say Spring is big and heavy with lots of moving parts is not correct. Spring is the most lightweight framework we found for Java development and also Tomcat. Also we use only the Spring jars we need for our applications to make it even smaller. The only missing component in Tomcat is JMS so we plugin Active MQ. Our development times and deployment times are now much smaller. We looked at Glassfish but we do not need EJB and J2EE and nobody use Glassfish.

]]> By: Scot Mcphee http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/2010/02/04/glassfish-is-doomed-in-the-department/comment-page-1/#comment-493 Scot Mcphee Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:03:02 +0000 http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/?p=508#comment-493 Bill, what you say does not surprise me, I expected it, but I'm not a Netbeans user so I've not followed it as closely. Certainly I do know that Oracle push a lot of their JDeveloper/Weblogic features like ADF, as "programming Java without knowing Java" (for poor old Forms developers who don't want to learn a new language and instead just 'drag and drop' and play with a property wizard). Seriously. So that's the sort of market they are generally aiming at. Bill, what you say does not surprise me, I expected it, but I’m not a Netbeans user so I’ve not followed it as closely.

Certainly I do know that Oracle push a lot of their JDeveloper/Weblogic features like ADF, as “programming Java without knowing Java” (for poor old Forms developers who don’t want to learn a new language and instead just ‘drag and drop’ and play with a property wizard). Seriously. So that’s the sort of market they are generally aiming at.

]]> By: Bill Ericsson http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/2010/02/04/glassfish-is-doomed-in-the-department/comment-page-1/#comment-492 Bill Ericsson Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:43:21 +0000 http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/?p=508#comment-492 Everything you've said can be applied to NetBeans as well. What many people believe to be the best IDE will wither and die as Oracle try and push JDeveloper. What they really should do is to rewrite (not port) all the value add and Oracle-specific bits as NetBeans modules. They could make NetBeans the killer IDE for everything. They can't do that with JDeveloper. Oh, and invest in netigso to make NetBeans proper OSGI to take away the one valid reason to prefer Eclipse. Everything you’ve said can be applied to NetBeans as well. What many people believe to be the best IDE will wither and die as Oracle try and push JDeveloper.

What they really should do is to rewrite (not port) all the value add and Oracle-specific bits as NetBeans modules.

They could make NetBeans the killer IDE for everything. They can’t do that with JDeveloper.

Oh, and invest in netigso to make NetBeans proper OSGI to take away the one valid reason to prefer Eclipse.

]]> By: Scot Mcphee http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/2010/02/04/glassfish-is-doomed-in-the-department/comment-page-1/#comment-491 Scot Mcphee Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:18:15 +0000 http://www.crazymcphee.net/x/?p=508#comment-491 That may be so, but increasingly I get the feeling that Spring is just the new J2EE. It's big and heavy with lots of moving parts and options and no longer feels nimble to develop in. I think its horses for courses, of course, but I do know when I want anything from the JEE stack (e.g. messaging) I prefer to use Glassfish to any other container. That may be so, but increasingly I get the feeling that Spring is just the new J2EE. It’s big and heavy with lots of moving parts and options and no longer feels nimble to develop in.

I think its horses for courses, of course, but I do know when I want anything from the JEE stack (e.g. messaging) I prefer to use Glassfish to any other container.

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